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Current issue : #65 | Release date : 11/04/2008 | Editor : TCLH
Title : The Underground Myth
==Phrack Inc.==
Volume 0x0c, Issue 0x41, Phile #0x0d of 0x0f
|=-----------------------------------------------------------------------=|
|=-----------------------=[ The Underground Myth ]=----------------------=|
|=-----------------------------------------------------------------------=|
|=---------------------------=[ By Anonymous ]=--------------------------=|
|=-----------------------------------------------------------------------=|
1 - Hacker's Myth
2 - The Security Industry
3 - Black Hat, Two Faces
4 - Technology
5 - Criminals
6 - Forgotten Youth
7 - The Forward Link
-------------
Hacker's Myth
-------------
This is a statement on the fate of the modern underground. There will
be none of the nostalgia, melodrama, black hat rhetoric or white hat
over-analysis that normally accompanies such writing.
Since the early sixties there has been just one continuous hacking
scene. From phreaking to hacking, people came and went, explosions of
activity, various geographical shifts of influence. But although the scene
seemed to constantly redefine itself in the ebb and flow of technology,
it always had a direct lineage to the past, with similar traditions,
culture and spirit.
In the past few years this connection has been completely severed.
And so there's very little point in writing about what the underground
used to be; leave that to the historians. Very little point writing
about what should be done to make everything good again; leave that to
the dreamers and idealists. Instead I'm going to lay down some cold hard
facts about the way things are now, and more importantly, how they came
to be this way.
This is the story of how the underground died.
---------------------
The Security Industry
---------------------
Then in the U.S. music scene there was big changes made
Due to circumstances beyond our control... such as payola
The rock n roll scene died after two years of solid rock
- The Animals, circa 1964
There is little doubt that the explosion of the security industry has
directly coincided with the decline of the hacking scene. The hackers
of the eighties and nineties became the security professionals of the
new millennium, and the community suffered for it.
The fact is that hackers, mostly on an individual basis, decided to
use their passion as a source of income. Whether this is good, bad,
or just pragmatic is completely irrelevant. Nearly all the hackers that
could get jobs did. For the individuals that decision has been made (for
better or worse), and in general there's nothing that will change this.
This was a hacker exodus. What really mattered was not the loss of any
individuals, but the cumulative effect this had on the underground. The
more hackers that left the underground for a corporate life, the fewer
that came in. And those who stayed became entrenched, increasingly
disconnected.
Collaboration in this new age of career hackers has all but ceased to
exist. Individuals are now obsessed with credit. For their career, for
their standing in the community, it must be absolutely clear who this
research, this vulnerability, or even this opinion belongs to.
There is no trust in this corporate community; an underground issue
greatly amplified by corporate motivations. A single person can go months
or even years without telling anyone exactly what he is working on, and
whats more, will be genuinely worried about someone "publishing" their
results before him. There is no respect for the information he holds,
no belief that information should be free, no belief that research should
be open. All that matters is credit; all that matters is fame and money,
their career.
This is purely the fault of the security industry, who has exploited
and cultivated this culture, designed it for their needs. The truly sad
thing is that the corporate security world hasn't realized that they are
sitting on a gold mine, and as a result the mine is likely to collapse;
and likely to take their industry down with it.
The security industry uses information as its sole commodity, information
about insecurity. Who has the information, and who doesn't is what
makes this economy work. Whats more, the economy has been founded on
the continued output of a finite group of hackers. For the most part,
founded on those hackers that came out of the underground scene at their
technical prime.
But these hackers are not going to continue their production
indefinitely. They will lose their technical edge, move on to other
industries, perhaps climb the ladder up to management, and then
retire. The question is, then what? Then it will be up to the new wave
of young security professionals, whose motivation is as much financial
as it is passion for the technology and the thrill of the hacking game.
To imagine that these new wave office workers, university trained and
disinterested, can match the creative output of a genuine hacker is
laughable. The industry will stagnate under these conditions. The rapid
technical advancement we have seen will end, no more breakthroughs:
no more new security products or services. Just the same old techniques
being rehashed again and again until the rock has been bled dry.
I am trying to show you the symbiotic nature of the security industry
and the hacking scene. Industry needs insecurity to survive, there is
no doubt about this. A secure and stable Internet is not profitable for
long. Hackers provided instability, change, chaos. So the industry became
a parasite on the hacking scene, devouring the talent pool without giving
anything back, not thinking of what will happen when there are no more
hackers to consume.
For this reason, the security industry, much like the hacker underground,
is doomed, perhaps even destined for failure. But for now, all that
matters is that we have a thriving industry and...
A hacker underground proclaimed to be dead.
--------------------
Black Hat, Two Faces
--------------------
It would be easy to lay the blame squarely on the shoulders of the
security industry. A lot of people have. Unfortunately, its not that
simple. Perhaps the underground could have survived without the lure of
a six figure job, but one thing should be made clear. The self-proclaimed
black hat movement does nothing to help.
Various black hat groups have claimed to be the voice of the underground,
but the black hat scene was only ever a pale imitation of the actual
underground. The underground wasn't at all interested in public
self-aggrandizement, but this is all the black hats ever did. All that
their various rants and escapades accomplished was to show how desperate
they actually were for fame and recognition.
But whats worse, while they often talk a big game, they very rarely have
the pedigree to back it up. This is mostly because these self-proclaimed
black hats are really just as self-serving as the white hats they pretend
to detest. With few exceptions, those black hats that aren't already
working in the security industry are those that don't have the skills
to cut it.
The entire anti-security theme was simply embarrassing. This was just the
black hat movement admitting that they couldn't step up and represent
in an increasingly technical world. Where once hacking skill commanded
respect, now the black hats were promoting misinformation in order to
make what few hacks they managed to pull off easier. They couldn't step
up to a challenge, they couldn't outsmart the white hats they so detest.
This ineptitude and misguided fervor of the black hat scene had a
massive negative impact on the hacking underground. The true voice of
the underground was lost behind the noise and drama, until the voice
became a whisper.
And then eventually fell silent.
----------
Technology
----------
The very nature of technology, a dynamic and intractable force, had a lot
to say in the demise of the hacking world. In many cases, if a black hat
had been active 5 or 10 years earlier they would have been technically
competent and may well have contributed significantly. This is because
with the utmost respect, and despite all the nostalgia, hackers of the
past had it easy.
In the early years, the problems hackers faced were largely related to the
availability of information. Isolated groups of people had their tricks
and techniques, and sharing this information was problematic. This is
in direct contrast with the situation today, where there is an excess
of information but a void of quality.
As a result of many differing factors, the world is becoming aware of the
threats posed by lax security. When there is money at risk, steps will
be taken to protect those assets. We see now an increasing move towards
technical security mechanisms being employed as part of a defense in
depth strategy, and as a result, to be a hacker today requires immense
technical ability in a broad range of disciplines. It takes years of
individual study to reach this level.
But unfortunately, fewer and fewer people are willing, or indeed capable
of following this path, of pursuing that ever-unattainable goal of
technical perfection. Instead, the current trend is to pursue the lowest
common denominator, to do the least amount of work to gain the most fame,
respect or money.
There has also been an increasingly narrow range in what is published. In
part this is because of the lack of accessibility of certain systems
(through obscurity or price), but this is also increasingly dictated by
fashion. In a desire to fit in with the community, to be accepted in
to conferences, to be seen doing the right things in the right places
with the right people, researchers are all too happy to slot in to this
pattern of predictable and narrow progress.
And even then, the standards of what makes acceptable research, or for
what makes a vulnerability interesting, drops with every year. The gap
between offensive research and defensive implementations continues to
grow, to the point where public vulnerability research has become a
parody of what it once was, a type of inside joke.
There is no creativity, no sense of arcana anymore.
---------
Criminals
---------
From Operation Sundevil to cyber terrorism. The criminalization of
computer hacking and, by association, computer hackers had a devastating
impact on the underground. Hacking was criminalized in two ways, both
of near equal importance: by legislation of computer crimes, and by the
new trend of genuine criminals using hacking as a method for fraud.
There should be a clear separation between these two things. The fact
that the underground collectively became criminals under the law for
what they had been doing for, in some cases, decades. And the fact that
in public perception, even among professionals that should know better,
there was very little distinction between a genuine hacker and those
criminals using hacking purely as a method for profit.
Indeed, little of what organized crime and terrorist/activist groups
are doing could justifiably be labeled hacking. It is simply convenient
to make this simplification, in media and in industry. The security
industry knows the difference, but they have no economic interest in
there being any clarity on this point. Any sort of hacking, anything
they can sensationalize enough to scare their profit margin up suits
them perfectly.
For the underground, these issues largely affected individuals, not the
broader structure of things. Each person had to make a personal decision
on whether it was worth 1) being seen as a criminal under the law and
2) being seen as a criminal in public perception. Why should the hacker
face this when such an easy, safe, respectable alternative is available
in the security industry?
Even the term black hat has been twisted into something more closely
aligned to organized crime. For all their faults, black hats were not
(in theory) motivated by this type of money.
It comes down to an aging hacking population deciding, on an individual
basis, to settle down with their families, their material possessions,
their careers. No one can argue that there is anything wrong with this. It
is just a fact that these hackers left the scene behind.
Leaving a void too large to be filled.
---------------
Forgotten Youth
---------------
The forgotten aspect of this whole story is, without doubt, the importance
of new talent entering the world of hacking. Historically, hacking has
belonged to the young. With every passing year, the average age of hackers
collectively increases. Some would claim this is a sign of a maturing
discipline. For surely, what could youth possibly contribute in this
technological landscape? They call them kids, dismiss them as irrelevant.
Despite all of the issues facing the underground, if hackers had managed
to get this one aspect right, if they had recognized the importance
of those who would come after them, if they had given them something
to aspire to be, if they had directly or indirectly taught them the
accumulated wisdom that so often separates a hacker from the crowd;
then perhaps there still would be a hacker underground.
Nearly all of the situations surrounding the disestablishment of the
underground were circumstantial, there was nobody to blame, and nothing
that could be done. But one point for which this was not true was the
underground's obligations to young hackers. An entire generation of
talented hackers have lost the opportunity to become a part of something
bigger than themselves by participating in a functioning hacking
community, simply because hackers were too self-absorbed to notice.
The decline of the underground scene happened relatively quickly, and
also relatively quietly. The hacker who left the underground behind
for his new life was unlikely to justify or explain his choices. In
fact it was more likely he would deny being changed at all. It's likely
he'd even continue to have contact with his fellow ex-hackers, in some
imitation of the underground scene. This only helped to obscure what
was actually happening.
Today's youth, for the most part, have no true understanding of hackers
or hacking. They have no knowledge of the history, no knowledge that
a history even exists. Their hacker is the media's hacker, the cyber
terrorist, the Russian mafia. This is unfortunate, but the real trouble
begins for those few that somehow become interested enough to look a
bit deeper.
The average person requires some form of role model, something to aspire
to, to imitate and to an extent, to idolize. At this time, the only
visible efforts were the white hat researchers, the black hat horde or
various other technically inept self-proclaimed 'experts'. There is so
little inspiring research, and even less inspiring hacking, that anyone
new to the world of hacking is almost invariably left with a skewed
impression of things.
Indeed, for a lot of the young people that managed to acquire the
necessary technical base, hacking was seen as simply an interesting career
path. There is no passion in these people, no motivation to extend and
create. A competent professional, valued employee.
But no longer a hacker.
----------------
The Forward Link
----------------
The hacker underground has been systematically dismantled, a victim of
circumstance. There was no reason for this, no conspiracy, no winner. A
conquered people, but with no conqueror, no enemy to fight. No chance
of rebellion. Conquered by circumstance, if not fate.
At first this would seem to be a bleak message. What is the point of
even trying anymore? Why practice a dead art? But the truth is that the
art is not dead, just the circle that brought the artists together. The
hacker underground is broken, but the hackers are not.
Casualties have been high; but there still exists a scattered,
marginalized, and misrepresented people who are the hackers. Hackers,
not black hat nor white, not professionals, not amateurs (surely none
of this matters), are still out there in this world today, still with
all the potential to be something great.
The question is not then how to artificially group these people into a
new underground movement. The question is not how to mourn the passing of
the golden days, how to keep the memories alive. There are no questions
of this sort, no problems that can be solved or corrected by individual
action.
All that remains is to relax, to do what you enjoy doing; to hack purely
for the enjoyment of doing so. The rest will come naturally, a new
scene, with its own traditions, culture and history. A new underground,
organically formed over time, just like the first, out of the hacker's
natural inclination to share and explore.
It will take time, and there will be difficulties. Some will not be able
to let go of the past, and some will fail for not remembering it. But
in the end, after everything has been said and done, the equilibrium
will be restored.
A new world, at the frontier of cyberspace, belonging to the hackers
by right.
Comments :
zem, on January 29th 2009 at 11:05 pm :
I have just found this site through the forums of blackhat-forums and if I may say this, I am in udder dismay on how the community fell apart. How could have the entire community just allow itself to fall apart like this, letting each other drift away into full isolation from each other.
Now, I am a kid who is interested, who actually WANTS to learn about technology, how it functions, why it functions the way it does, and why does this command make this happen. I started to search for a community, some place where there are people who know more then me in hacking/phreaking or are just enganears who want spread their knowledge.
One of the first places I found was hackthissite.org, and it is not to bad, but the forums are barely active, and the IRC channel is packed with random script kiddies with the occasional "how do i hax myspace password?". Sadly, it seems that automatically when you join one of these "communities" you get branded a script kiddie and then ignored and left behind.
One thing I have noticed is that just because I have a couple computers in my basement, folding, I am branded as a hacker or tech person, and if you do not know how to "hack" a myspace account, or runescape, you are then considered a fraud or fake hacker. Why has it come to this, that you either know everything, or know nothing?
Well, I am still in the search of a community that is active, and willing to teach someone about programming such as assembly, and how to mess with electronics such as making the chip run your own code, feel free to email me so I could also join in and be one of the next generation of IT's that want knowledge, not money.
hak8or@gmail.com
Now, I am a kid who is interested, who actually WANTS to learn about technology, how it functions, why it functions the way it does, and why does this command make this happen. I started to search for a community, some place where there are people who know more then me in hacking/phreaking or are just enganears who want spread their knowledge.
One of the first places I found was hackthissite.org, and it is not to bad, but the forums are barely active, and the IRC channel is packed with random script kiddies with the occasional "how do i hax myspace password?". Sadly, it seems that automatically when you join one of these "communities" you get branded a script kiddie and then ignored and left behind.
One thing I have noticed is that just because I have a couple computers in my basement, folding, I am branded as a hacker or tech person, and if you do not know how to "hack" a myspace account, or runescape, you are then considered a fraud or fake hacker. Why has it come to this, that you either know everything, or know nothing?
Well, I am still in the search of a community that is active, and willing to teach someone about programming such as assembly, and how to mess with electronics such as making the chip run your own code, feel free to email me so I could also join in and be one of the next generation of IT's that want knowledge, not money.
hak8or@gmail.com
deadbeef, on January 29th 2009 at 8:38 am :
the hacking scene is dead
Nids, on January 13th 2009 at 7:07 pm :
The underground is not dead friends, the underground of the seventies and eighties is dead, make no mistake it's gone, but there remain children in a technologicaly dependant world, and just like Cain who figured out he could crack a rock from being a sitting implement to a club there will be the next generation who figure out how to crash their school's email server and fry their ex-girlfriend's processor.
All we can do, as the first and second generation hackers is watch with awe and love, and if so inclined, join in.
All we can do, as the first and second generation hackers is watch with awe and love, and if so inclined, join in.
amanfromMars, on December 17th 2008 at 6:01 am :
"All that remains is to relax, to do what you enjoy doing; to hack purely
for the enjoyment of doing so. The rest will come naturally, a new
scene, with its own traditions, culture and history. A new underground,
organically formed over time, just like the first, out of the hacker's
natural inclination to share and explore.
It will take time, and there will be difficulties. Some will not be able
to let go of the past, and some will fail for not remembering it. But
in the end, after everything has been said and done, the equilibrium
will be restored.
A new world, at the frontier of cyberspace, belonging to the hackers
by right."
There is a world of difference between the able hacker and the enabled crack coder although they may both be on the same wavelength/on a similar Intellectual Plane .... and that is in the Realm of Active Semantics and Network InterNetworking RobotICQs .... NEUKlearer HyperRadioProActive NIRobotIQs ....... for the NXXXXT Generation of Virtual Controller .... Lead AIdDriver.
And as you can read here ....... http://amanfrommars.baywords.com/2008/12/17/081217/ ..... access to the bridge/flight deck is being offered to those with a Passion to AIdDriver Reality and Control Destiny rather than accept their Fate.
Things have become XXXXstreamly Sophisticated in ITs Fields. :-) .... and Fabulously Lucrative for ITs Beta, Great Game, Games Players and Role Modellers.
for the enjoyment of doing so. The rest will come naturally, a new
scene, with its own traditions, culture and history. A new underground,
organically formed over time, just like the first, out of the hacker's
natural inclination to share and explore.
It will take time, and there will be difficulties. Some will not be able
to let go of the past, and some will fail for not remembering it. But
in the end, after everything has been said and done, the equilibrium
will be restored.
A new world, at the frontier of cyberspace, belonging to the hackers
by right."
There is a world of difference between the able hacker and the enabled crack coder although they may both be on the same wavelength/on a similar Intellectual Plane .... and that is in the Realm of Active Semantics and Network InterNetworking RobotICQs .... NEUKlearer HyperRadioProActive NIRobotIQs ....... for the NXXXXT Generation of Virtual Controller .... Lead AIdDriver.
And as you can read here ....... http://amanfrommars.baywords.com/2008/12/17/081217/ ..... access to the bridge/flight deck is being offered to those with a Passion to AIdDriver Reality and Control Destiny rather than accept their Fate.
Things have become XXXXstreamly Sophisticated in ITs Fields. :-) .... and Fabulously Lucrative for ITs Beta, Great Game, Games Players and Role Modellers.
Sober Russian, on December 15th 2008 at 4:44 am :
And - hey - the questions?
/
May I guess any right now?
/
73
/
May I guess any right now?
/
73
SomeOnE, on December 15th 2008 at 4:39 am :
@ prec Phrack staff
/
You're welcome 2 do any harm you possibly used to do to another living creatures. But, before you begin... you think you're tough saying this or that?
/
SomeOnE. Read only small letters. I hope IT will never happen to any of you. There's one more man who knows what I'm talking about. No cops, but you will call for them in a very andante voce if anything goes absolutely wrong for you (I don't mean my response 4 crashing my poor comp or whatever else techical merrit you'd want to show to the public).
/
And, boy - my paranoia belongs only to me. And I don't like IT to be used by another person the way I used to.
/
Nevertheless, everyone knows your site is very attractive not only for young hacker ladies... Well, also maybe for those who doesn't really appreciate your way of communicating with customers. BTW, there's a Chinatown not so far from your place. I will probably want 2 send you a nice XMas gift :-) you won't refuse.
/
00
/
You're welcome 2 do any harm you possibly used to do to another living creatures. But, before you begin... you think you're tough saying this or that?
/
SomeOnE. Read only small letters. I hope IT will never happen to any of you. There's one more man who knows what I'm talking about. No cops, but you will call for them in a very andante voce if anything goes absolutely wrong for you (I don't mean my response 4 crashing my poor comp or whatever else techical merrit you'd want to show to the public).
/
And, boy - my paranoia belongs only to me. And I don't like IT to be used by another person the way I used to.
/
Nevertheless, everyone knows your site is very attractive not only for young hacker ladies... Well, also maybe for those who doesn't really appreciate your way of communicating with customers. BTW, there's a Chinatown not so far from your place. I will probably want 2 send you a nice XMas gift :-) you won't refuse.
/
00
phrack staff, on December 14th 2008 at 3:53 pm :
Your paranoia is getting annoyng SomeOne, for this reason the phrack staff would like to convocate you for a couple of questions. Keep calm, nothing bad will happen. Almost.
SomeOnE, on December 14th 2008 at 9:30 am :
@ prec gahbenshtein>
/
Better worship Jah at conferences. Personally. Otherways, a wide path to a police interviewer is open. Or, maybe, a militia one?
/
Better worship Jah at conferences. Personally. Otherways, a wide path to a police interviewer is open. Or, maybe, a militia one?
gahbenshtein, on December 13th 2008 at 10:13 am :
to any and all concerned-
i am a disillusioned youth, as discussed in the context of this article. I stumbled upon the ruins of the underground in early middle school, in the midst of ostracism from my contemporaries and condescension from my elders. looking to tap into my creative potential, i plugged in, but i found no connections to be made, no communities to join; all i know--and i know very little--has been gleaned from scraps and fragments left over from the glory days. for me, there was no organic burst of creativity; there was a struggle to find a place in a rapidly-decaying world, with no guidance or true goal.
i am putting out this call to all those scions of the hacking spirit. if you are concerned at all with the next wave, with those who will come after, please contact me at g_siciliano@live.com. i am neither skilled nor truly experienced, and i appeal to those who are to help me overcome stagnation.
pass on your knowledge; keep us alive.
i am a disillusioned youth, as discussed in the context of this article. I stumbled upon the ruins of the underground in early middle school, in the midst of ostracism from my contemporaries and condescension from my elders. looking to tap into my creative potential, i plugged in, but i found no connections to be made, no communities to join; all i know--and i know very little--has been gleaned from scraps and fragments left over from the glory days. for me, there was no organic burst of creativity; there was a struggle to find a place in a rapidly-decaying world, with no guidance or true goal.
i am putting out this call to all those scions of the hacking spirit. if you are concerned at all with the next wave, with those who will come after, please contact me at g_siciliano@live.com. i am neither skilled nor truly experienced, and i appeal to those who are to help me overcome stagnation.
pass on your knowledge; keep us alive.
amanfromMars, on November 8th 2008 at 3:04 am :
And you can certainly take it from that Post Modern Revelation, that there is an Alternative Intelligence, which may be Alien and is Different, but is Virtually Available Free to EveryOne Everywhere, and there are Gremlins and Trojans and Worms and Viruses and all Manner of Degenerative Influences wasting Third Party Resources Highlighting the Lack of Useful Establishment Intelligence with the Probable Crime of Trying to Stop the Greater Sharing of Unknown Knowns .... the Things which they Know they don't Know and Own but which they would wish Others not to Know and Own.
Although a Defence of Pig Ignorance leading to Hubristic Arrogance will be one which Truth would accept as Valid ..... and would then expect to be Transformed and Righted as Proof Positive of the Validation.
"This is the story of how the underground died." ....... Reports of ITs death are Grossly Exaggerated and have no Basis in either Truth or Fantasy. It is however, probably definitely maybe, a Major Overwhelming Element in some Wishful Emptyheaded rather than Deadhead Thinking .... ZeroDay Dreaming.
One hopes that such Sub Prime Performance can Improve Itself before its Proponents are Written out of the Future Script as being Too Slow/Rotten/Stupid for Lead Purpose.
Although a Defence of Pig Ignorance leading to Hubristic Arrogance will be one which Truth would accept as Valid ..... and would then expect to be Transformed and Righted as Proof Positive of the Validation.
"This is the story of how the underground died." ....... Reports of ITs death are Grossly Exaggerated and have no Basis in either Truth or Fantasy. It is however, probably definitely maybe, a Major Overwhelming Element in some Wishful Emptyheaded rather than Deadhead Thinking .... ZeroDay Dreaming.
One hopes that such Sub Prime Performance can Improve Itself before its Proponents are Written out of the Future Script as being Too Slow/Rotten/Stupid for Lead Purpose.
amanfromMars, on November 7th 2008 at 11:22 pm :
Re Max Ehrmann, on October 21th 2008 at 12:32 am
Max,
That was an Eloquent Soliloquy on the Enobling Hacking Scene and ITs Cracking/Lack of Cracking of Codes for Future Fitness of Purpose with Virtually Real AI Constructions with UniVersatile Binary Art Drivers ...... Source Feeders of Search and Discovery.
However, once Source appears spontaneously unclassified and discovered elsewhere, in AI Vogueish Rogue and/or Independent Virtual IDEntity*, is it classified and assaulted with all manner of assorted Third Party private concerns/Vested Interests, which have Everything to do with the Past and the Failings in Third Parties and Nothing at All to do with the Future and its Possibilities, and with Emerging Quantum Communications Technologies and Methodologies, the Probability of IT dDelivering Transparent Certainty.
And then you can expect the Shenanigans and Raised False Flag/Time Out ...."Comments blocked on this article due to abuse." ... as have occurred and blighted the SISter thread here on Phrack .... a Phrack Crack Hack Attack on "Hacking your brain: Artificial Conciousness"
However, all that it does is Build up Pressure for a Buffer Overflow of Advanced IntelAIgent Information ..... with an Increasingly HyperRadioProActive Spin Waiting Cache Temporally/Temporarily Inconvenienced, which Parodoxically Permits dDeeper Stealth Embedding/Sleeper Placement/Invisible Progress to Absolute Control Paradigms.
Max,
That was an Eloquent Soliloquy on the Enobling Hacking Scene and ITs Cracking/Lack of Cracking of Codes for Future Fitness of Purpose with Virtually Real AI Constructions with UniVersatile Binary Art Drivers ...... Source Feeders of Search and Discovery.
However, once Source appears spontaneously unclassified and discovered elsewhere, in AI Vogueish Rogue and/or Independent Virtual IDEntity*, is it classified and assaulted with all manner of assorted Third Party private concerns/Vested Interests, which have Everything to do with the Past and the Failings in Third Parties and Nothing at All to do with the Future and its Possibilities, and with Emerging Quantum Communications Technologies and Methodologies, the Probability of IT dDelivering Transparent Certainty.
And then you can expect the Shenanigans and Raised False Flag/Time Out ...."Comments blocked on this article due to abuse." ... as have occurred and blighted the SISter thread here on Phrack .... a Phrack Crack Hack Attack on "Hacking your brain: Artificial Conciousness"
However, all that it does is Build up Pressure for a Buffer Overflow of Advanced IntelAIgent Information ..... with an Increasingly HyperRadioProActive Spin Waiting Cache Temporally/Temporarily Inconvenienced, which Parodoxically Permits dDeeper Stealth Embedding/Sleeper Placement/Invisible Progress to Absolute Control Paradigms.
SomeOnE, on October 24th 2008 at 8:23 am :
@Max Ehrmann:
/
"...the older generation has given up on the newer generation(s) simply because of their new attitude towards technology..." -
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Technology is just what was given to a younger generation, getting more advanced in their hands. I hope we all understand people who developed IT and soon are to retire.
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Remember them young... they really are. And they deserve more kind attitude from ancestors.
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Kickin'off Grands is right the case the Serpent does not tenderly holds its tail in the mouth - IT eats IT.
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A problem of hacking community is, IMO, a colonna of jerks who, being taught, started enormous commerce with things that could be of another kind. And very few men of a real spirit of hacking [I prefer the word "engineering" instead, but girls don't care about engineers] could wish to meet such teachers in life.
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And this way Papas'n'Mamas have their Grandchildren self-learned. Pirates of learning :) True engineers of own world. Come and take what is yours, be brave. As we say in Russia: "Don't trust, Don't beg, Don't get scared". Did anyone seen Pro things done by a master and given away for free? Rarely, agree, and mostly to friends and any children. But not the programs, millions of them.
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Is anyone still wondering why the young people are so disrespectful to almost anyone who tend to mentor nowadays. They will surely teach better than those who was 10 - 20 years older, those who must have been taught just same wisdom as they were learnt. My sincere hopes for them.
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73
/
"...the older generation has given up on the newer generation(s) simply because of their new attitude towards technology..." -
/
Technology is just what was given to a younger generation, getting more advanced in their hands. I hope we all understand people who developed IT and soon are to retire.
/
Remember them young... they really are. And they deserve more kind attitude from ancestors.
/
Kickin'off Grands is right the case the Serpent does not tenderly holds its tail in the mouth - IT eats IT.
/
A problem of hacking community is, IMO, a colonna of jerks who, being taught, started enormous commerce with things that could be of another kind. And very few men of a real spirit of hacking [I prefer the word "engineering" instead, but girls don't care about engineers] could wish to meet such teachers in life.
/
And this way Papas'n'Mamas have their Grandchildren self-learned. Pirates of learning :) True engineers of own world. Come and take what is yours, be brave. As we say in Russia: "Don't trust, Don't beg, Don't get scared". Did anyone seen Pro things done by a master and given away for free? Rarely, agree, and mostly to friends and any children. But not the programs, millions of them.
/
Is anyone still wondering why the young people are so disrespectful to almost anyone who tend to mentor nowadays. They will surely teach better than those who was 10 - 20 years older, those who must have been taught just same wisdom as they were learnt. My sincere hopes for them.
/
73
Max Ehrmann, on October 21th 2008 at 3:32 pm :
I see a lot of comments and statements that people make on Phrack and other communities that are ironical and counter-productive to each other after articles like this are written.
The problem isn't necessarily that the younger generation does not have the right motives, willpower, ideas, or constructive energy to bring about a new generation of technological innovation. It truly comes down to the fact that the older generation has given up on the newer generation(s) simply because of their new attitude towards technology. This is obviously true and false in today's world wide community depending on certain situations and circumstances.
However, with this mindset, nothing will get accomplished. Not everyone is born a prodigy, nor do they necessarily posses the skills required to become a master of any trade without the proper guidance at birth.
It is one thing to write an article about the problem(s) and another to figure out the solution. We are supposed to seek information to solve problems, are we not? Yet, I see more often than ever that we shun people from our communities, our circles of friends, whatever you want to describe our groups as simply because someone knows less than the rest of the group, yet all they seek is information and guidance. Most of what remains is more of a clique and cliche than a group of people forming together to work out the problems we face day in and day out.
If you want to see the underground or a second coming of hacking as we used to know it, then teach, guide, inspire. Be the person who someone CAN in fact look up to. Everyone knows the solution to the problem, which in turn creates more problems. This is due to the fact that most of you with the answers are still stuck in a fantasy world of having a stable job, a stable family, a mortgage to pay off, etc. This is, after all, the life that most people in today's world dream about.
The new problem stemming now becomes, what about the generation after you? What will they do? Will you neglect them while sheltering and protecting your own career and stability? This will only lead to the destruction of the first generation of hackers as the second is born. You will try to subdue, censor, and irradicate everything you once stood for and hated yourself while the new generation is forming. All because you want to protect your career, your material possessions, and/or secret little ideas you have been working on without help for several days, weeks, months, years. However, the new generation will have little or no care about what you once accomplished or created simply because you never gave them a chance to care.
Is this what you really want for the community you once belonged to, you once cherished, you once cared for, you once devoted yourself to and loved? Desired things we seek not, only what little you are leaving us.
The problem isn't necessarily that the younger generation does not have the right motives, willpower, ideas, or constructive energy to bring about a new generation of technological innovation. It truly comes down to the fact that the older generation has given up on the newer generation(s) simply because of their new attitude towards technology. This is obviously true and false in today's world wide community depending on certain situations and circumstances.
However, with this mindset, nothing will get accomplished. Not everyone is born a prodigy, nor do they necessarily posses the skills required to become a master of any trade without the proper guidance at birth.
It is one thing to write an article about the problem(s) and another to figure out the solution. We are supposed to seek information to solve problems, are we not? Yet, I see more often than ever that we shun people from our communities, our circles of friends, whatever you want to describe our groups as simply because someone knows less than the rest of the group, yet all they seek is information and guidance. Most of what remains is more of a clique and cliche than a group of people forming together to work out the problems we face day in and day out.
If you want to see the underground or a second coming of hacking as we used to know it, then teach, guide, inspire. Be the person who someone CAN in fact look up to. Everyone knows the solution to the problem, which in turn creates more problems. This is due to the fact that most of you with the answers are still stuck in a fantasy world of having a stable job, a stable family, a mortgage to pay off, etc. This is, after all, the life that most people in today's world dream about.
The new problem stemming now becomes, what about the generation after you? What will they do? Will you neglect them while sheltering and protecting your own career and stability? This will only lead to the destruction of the first generation of hackers as the second is born. You will try to subdue, censor, and irradicate everything you once stood for and hated yourself while the new generation is forming. All because you want to protect your career, your material possessions, and/or secret little ideas you have been working on without help for several days, weeks, months, years. However, the new generation will have little or no care about what you once accomplished or created simply because you never gave them a chance to care.
Is this what you really want for the community you once belonged to, you once cherished, you once cared for, you once devoted yourself to and loved? Desired things we seek not, only what little you are leaving us.
Harlock, on October 15th 2008 at 10:43 am :
While theres a lotta nuggets of truth in this article, its nothing new as a whole. This sort of hacking has been criminalized for a long time. Commercialization and commodification of the computer industry, including security, has been a big factor for a long time. Soo too have the egos been a big factor, and not a good one either. The best hackers are people nobody's heard of as the most busted hackers are the ones who bragged. The most effective underground is silent to the outside but not to each other. I remember the days in high school, there were the pirates & hackers who didn't advertise what they did yet formed large networks sharing amongst each other, none wore the "l33t hax0rz" t-shirt. The ones who wanted info yet refused to share info soon found themselves sent to coventry.
Theres another factor that hasn't been touched on. Thats the nature of computers & computer networks. in the past computers were more hobbyist machines rather than commodities. If you look back to the 70's & 80's, every computer had at least one programming language right out of the box and this was the first step to true hacking. Starting in the 90's computers came with no programming language and most sources of software had few or no programming languages available. The 2 most visible pre-packaged OS's available are treated like, and indeed operate as a commodity, little more than a shell for "office applications" with the inner workings completely paved over much like owning a car with the hood welded shut. Ham radio operators had a name for such systems: that is "appliances" and they're users were "appliance operators". The underground will remain buried as long as people treat systems as tools, nothing more, like they would a hammer, screwdriver or toaster.
Theres another factor that hasn't been touched on. Thats the nature of computers & computer networks. in the past computers were more hobbyist machines rather than commodities. If you look back to the 70's & 80's, every computer had at least one programming language right out of the box and this was the first step to true hacking. Starting in the 90's computers came with no programming language and most sources of software had few or no programming languages available. The 2 most visible pre-packaged OS's available are treated like, and indeed operate as a commodity, little more than a shell for "office applications" with the inner workings completely paved over much like owning a car with the hood welded shut. Ham radio operators had a name for such systems: that is "appliances" and they're users were "appliance operators". The underground will remain buried as long as people treat systems as tools, nothing more, like they would a hammer, screwdriver or toaster.
Artist, on October 10th 2008 at 10:24 pm :
I am not a hacker. I know html, javascript and a few other tid bits but I have a lot more to learn before I even become a newbie. What I have seen over the last few years in the United States and across the world is becoming more and more like the novel 1984.
The more you question things the more you are sucpect until you become so marginialized you might as well live under a rock.
The media, the world government, and cooperate interest want to control the language, fears, and greed of the masses making it harder and harder for independent voices, or those who think outside the box to state there opinions much less do something about it.
That is another reason why the underground cease to be a cohesive unit anymore. Global underlining political and social censorship and fear of retrubution.
The more you question things the more you are sucpect until you become so marginialized you might as well live under a rock.
The media, the world government, and cooperate interest want to control the language, fears, and greed of the masses making it harder and harder for independent voices, or those who think outside the box to state there opinions much less do something about it.
That is another reason why the underground cease to be a cohesive unit anymore. Global underlining political and social censorship and fear of retrubution.
cront, on October 8th 2008 at 2:54 am :
An Insightful article. By my own experience, it sprang from a Hacker's mind only.
amanfromMars, on September 25th 2008 at 8:57 am :
"The finding of a vuln was a necessity to create a breach into the system to be compromised. It is ridiculous to think that someone now earns a 6 figure annual salary just by doing that." ...... LoCo, on September 9th 2008 at 1:04 am
LoCo,
It would be Loco to think that they are not Priceless. For are they not Masters of the Universe and ITs Virtual Realities?
Cheers from Europa.:-)
"I'm sure someday a new better underground will form, but I'm sure I'll be too damn old by then." ..... penguin, on July 28th 2008 at 8:36 am
Strange that you do not think IT is Posting here, penguin, now, which is sooner rather than later too ..... giving you Plenty of Time in this Space ..... NeuReal SurReal Time Zone.
LoCo,
It would be Loco to think that they are not Priceless. For are they not Masters of the Universe and ITs Virtual Realities?
Cheers from Europa.:-)
"I'm sure someday a new better underground will form, but I'm sure I'll be too damn old by then." ..... penguin, on July 28th 2008 at 8:36 am
Strange that you do not think IT is Posting here, penguin, now, which is sooner rather than later too ..... giving you Plenty of Time in this Space ..... NeuReal SurReal Time Zone.
dHunterN, on September 24th 2008 at 1:52 am :
first off, great article. I think it touches on some great points. I can't call myself a hacker - all I've ever done in that realm is some reverse engineering/ cracking, and building a neat little laptop out of a ps2 - but I think it's great that people are at least still talking about the hacker community.
I can see from everyone's posts that most seem to be in agreement that security professionals are really in opposition to hackers - that they aren't really compatible. I'm 19, and if I could get a job working in security, I'd love that. But that doesn't mean I'm going to villify hackers. Without them, I don't have a job, right?
I agree that the 'internet' is pretty much vanilla - just a lot of bloggers and the occasional script kid, but, as I think this board shows, there are still a lot of peeps who don't want to see it become a repository govt-watched cultural-medicine.
I mean, I know 'some guys' who set up a whole net of wireless access points around our town, so local enthusiasts could have a place to congregate wOut talking over an ISP-owned wire.
It just seems to me like there are possibilities, just along a different line than what's been used up until now.
Any thoughts on this?
I can see from everyone's posts that most seem to be in agreement that security professionals are really in opposition to hackers - that they aren't really compatible. I'm 19, and if I could get a job working in security, I'd love that. But that doesn't mean I'm going to villify hackers. Without them, I don't have a job, right?
I agree that the 'internet' is pretty much vanilla - just a lot of bloggers and the occasional script kid, but, as I think this board shows, there are still a lot of peeps who don't want to see it become a repository govt-watched cultural-medicine.
I mean, I know 'some guys' who set up a whole net of wireless access points around our town, so local enthusiasts could have a place to congregate wOut talking over an ISP-owned wire.
It just seems to me like there are possibilities, just along a different line than what's been used up until now.
Any thoughts on this?
jiwagno, on September 20th 2008 at 11:41 pm :
http://www.infowars.com/?p=4718
War on the Internet begins
War on the Internet begins
codejunky, on September 17th 2008 at 5:51 am :
Hey guys,
There are still some of us out here who still look up to the older gen of hacker and would give anything to learn even half of what these people know, to sit with the www gods and understand what is going on inside.
Unfortunately there is a massive shortage of real hackers (I havn't met any yet) and the high quality information is buried under a huge heap of low quality rambling.
I love reading the research from other hackers and mags like phrack are ace.
There is always someone who wants to know, someone who wants to learn
There are still some of us out here who still look up to the older gen of hacker and would give anything to learn even half of what these people know, to sit with the www gods and understand what is going on inside.
Unfortunately there is a massive shortage of real hackers (I havn't met any yet) and the high quality information is buried under a huge heap of low quality rambling.
I love reading the research from other hackers and mags like phrack are ace.
There is always someone who wants to know, someone who wants to learn
BongolianPirate, on September 14th 2008 at 7:07 am :
A very good paper, very true, also very sad to think that this is what will come out of at least 2 in 3 hackers... They will surely leave the 'underground' in search of income, they will forget what they learned who they 'trusted' (if there is such a thing in this game) But it is like he said, only the community is dead, not the people in it, but as long as there are people then a community can be rebuilt, as long as there are people out there willing to put time and effort into rebuilding...
@pen1: You are a ignorant man...God willing you will never have the chance to procreate, and thus make litter, and (if possible) more ignorant versions of your self, people like you should be chemically castrated, or with an axe, why should we be humane on you? It's not about race at the end of the day, it's about people, one world, one life, live it without hatred for others...
@pen1: You are a ignorant man...God willing you will never have the chance to procreate, and thus make litter, and (if possible) more ignorant versions of your self, people like you should be chemically castrated, or with an axe, why should we be humane on you? It's not about race at the end of the day, it's about people, one world, one life, live it without hatred for others...
LoCo, on September 9th 2008 at 4:04 pm :
This article is so true that it makes you think about the past, how one got started in the scene, how did the scene work in the past days.
Skilled hackers have moved into the security industry, they now are the so-called Security Analysts and Vuln Researchers. They spend more of the time that a real hacker used to spend in finding a new bug because they are desperate for it to earn their money. The finding of a vuln was a necessity to create a breach into the system to be compromised. It is ridiculous to think that someone now earns a 6 figure annual salary just by doing that. The reason why the hacking scene is dead is because when this money-suckers find the vuln, everyone in the software industry gets notified, in the old days it could stay unnoticed even for years, now its impossible.. why? because the "Vuln Researcher" notifies everyone in the IT business that HE was the one that discovered it to be apt to claim his money. It is the way that they now gain respect, they have forgotten their hacking days and have "evolved" into a kind of money-making zombie.
It is sad but true, even great zines like this have felt the strike of this phenomena, anyone with a skill will stop publishing papers so that they don't get an "unethical" reputation in the market.
And, to all the newbies that posted here.. having a hard time to learn stuff is the way to do it, at least that is how I learnt it, no hacker even in the past would teach you how to do it. It is all about researching and POCs. Good luck and keep trying!
cheers from peru.
Skilled hackers have moved into the security industry, they now are the so-called Security Analysts and Vuln Researchers. They spend more of the time that a real hacker used to spend in finding a new bug because they are desperate for it to earn their money. The finding of a vuln was a necessity to create a breach into the system to be compromised. It is ridiculous to think that someone now earns a 6 figure annual salary just by doing that. The reason why the hacking scene is dead is because when this money-suckers find the vuln, everyone in the software industry gets notified, in the old days it could stay unnoticed even for years, now its impossible.. why? because the "Vuln Researcher" notifies everyone in the IT business that HE was the one that discovered it to be apt to claim his money. It is the way that they now gain respect, they have forgotten their hacking days and have "evolved" into a kind of money-making zombie.
It is sad but true, even great zines like this have felt the strike of this phenomena, anyone with a skill will stop publishing papers so that they don't get an "unethical" reputation in the market.
And, to all the newbies that posted here.. having a hard time to learn stuff is the way to do it, at least that is how I learnt it, no hacker even in the past would teach you how to do it. It is all about researching and POCs. Good luck and keep trying!
cheers from peru.
jiwagno, on September 7th 2008 at 5:21 am :
Another idea: take the dull plumbing out of coding and make something compatible with algorithmic reasoning
die Patterns die
die Patterns die
jiwagno, on September 6th 2008 at 5:19 pm :
there's plenty of work to do
many people are unable to get out of linear think
the biggest hack may be turning outsiders into insiders
get to it
many people are unable to get out of linear think
the biggest hack may be turning outsiders into insiders
get to it
Dedicated, on September 6th 2008 at 3:59 pm :
I am part of the young generation of hacker and this article is so true. It is so hard to find information and harder to find help. Most hacker take no interest in helping because they fear the law or they are too interested in fame.
In this new world of hacking new people became suspects or inferiors. They became ideas stealers. Hackers take no interest in showing their work, it is more convenient to hide the information and then be a god upon the fans.
I am not stopping my search of a true community of hackers, nor white hat, nor black hat. Those two are only interested in fame anyway. Where is the equilibrium ?
In this new world of hacking new people became suspects or inferiors. They became ideas stealers. Hackers take no interest in showing their work, it is more convenient to hide the information and then be a god upon the fans.
I am not stopping my search of a true community of hackers, nor white hat, nor black hat. Those two are only interested in fame anyway. Where is the equilibrium ?
jiwagno, on September 5th 2008 at 8:18 pm :
hacking died because 9/11 put everybody into the darkest fscking catatonic drooling coma this world has ever seen
if this isn't corrected it will all end badly in a cheap anti-climactic sex ed video kind of way
i consider myself grey to white, i only blackhat what i own, but the David Lynch factor (love the movies, but they are very dark) that has descended is going to suck the life out of even the most irrepressible
something has to be done to keep ahead of the bastard untopia that's hanging over everything you love and hate
that ought to get you started
if this isn't corrected it will all end badly in a cheap anti-climactic sex ed video kind of way
i consider myself grey to white, i only blackhat what i own, but the David Lynch factor (love the movies, but they are very dark) that has descended is going to suck the life out of even the most irrepressible
something has to be done to keep ahead of the bastard untopia that's hanging over everything you love and hate
that ought to get you started
thelinuxone, on August 29th 2008 at 11:52 am :
correction - the* how and WHY
thelinuxone, on August 29th 2008 at 11:50 am :
this paper brought tears to my eyes because it is all too true. i wish there was a way we could get the young people to want to know they how and WHY not just the how so i can get a good job. hackers are slowly disappearing and one day when we are in the history books we will have great memories to share with our grand kids.
mcintyre69, on August 20th 2008 at 10:05 am :
after i posted here weeks back i grew tired and board of the constant search and failing techniques and i hate to say it stopped dearching, constant failure and no luck is tiresome. when i found this in my bookmarks i gave it a little read over and i dont no why but all of a sudden the disire to learn and no why and how something work hit me again.
to Herr Shroti
hmmmm seems like u took the words right out of my mouth lol
I am extremely interested in programming in general, and specifically in the exploitation/defence of software
that would be me to.
i also agree with disco_y2k people need to be more precise so theres me being precise
if any wants to help reignite the spark let me no where i can find some great ebooks or something drop me and email. i wonder if any1 will post after me again lol
zakmcintyre@ HOTMAIL. co .uk
to Herr Shroti
hmmmm seems like u took the words right out of my mouth lol
I am extremely interested in programming in general, and specifically in the exploitation/defence of software
that would be me to.
i also agree with disco_y2k people need to be more precise so theres me being precise
if any wants to help reignite the spark let me no where i can find some great ebooks or something drop me and email. i wonder if any1 will post after me again lol
zakmcintyre@ HOTMAIL. co .uk
Herr Shroti, on July 29th 2008 at 10:40 am :
Hi all.
I agree with what disco_y2k said. And then, in response, my main interest is penetration testing. My view in life has always been focused on extracting maximum performance from anything by understanding (something which rather irritates my family).
This leads me to networks. I am extremely interested in programming in general, and specifically in the exploitation/defence of software as well as the programming of artificial intelligence. Anyway, if ya got any info ya'd like ta share, me email has changed to <vvhekke [AT] gmail [DOT] com>
Gday (or night) all.
I agree with what disco_y2k said. And then, in response, my main interest is penetration testing. My view in life has always been focused on extracting maximum performance from anything by understanding (something which rather irritates my family).
This leads me to networks. I am extremely interested in programming in general, and specifically in the exploitation/defence of software as well as the programming of artificial intelligence. Anyway, if ya got any info ya'd like ta share, me email has changed to <vvhekke [AT] gmail [DOT] com>
Gday (or night) all.